Welsh interest - An unusual George III sterling silver dinner plate, London 1788 by Andrew Fogelberg and Stephen Gilbert (reg. 17th July 1780)

Welsh interest - An unusual George III sterling silver dinner plate, London 1788 by Andrew Fogelberg and Stephen Gilbert (reg. 17th July 1780)

Of shaped circular form with reed, ribbon and beaded rim. The edge engraved with a quartered and impaled coat of arms within a shield. The reverse engraved with scratch weight No 20, 18 : 2. Fully marked to the reverse. Diameter – 25.4 cm / 9.9 inches

Weight – 549 grams / 17.65 ozt

The arms are for Talbot impaling Strangways quartering Fox quartering Horner

probably for Thomas Mansel Talbot (1747-1813) of Margam, Glamorganshire who married Lady Mary Lucy Fox-Strangways (1776 – 1855) on the 1st Feb 1794, daughter of Henry, 2nd Earl of Illchester and Mary Theresa O’Grady. It is possible this could be for Mansel Talbot’s cousin William Davenport Talbot (1763 – 1800) of Lacock, who married Lady Mary’s sister Lady Elizabeth Theresa Fox-Strangways (1773 – 1846) on the 17th April 1796. Mansel Talbot is the most likely candidate, as he was a wealthy landowner in South Wales who resided at Penrice Castle (built 1773-79), but also owned the house at Margam (mostly demolished 1787-93). It was at Margam where he built the now famous orangery in 1787-90 to house his sculpture collection as well as the orange trees. His love for antiquity and marble was developed from his grand tour that he embarked on in 1770. A bust of Mansel Talbot of 1770-75 by Christopher Hewetson is in the V&A collection (A.41-1953). His funeral hatchment bearing these arms hangs at Margam Abbey. By comparison William had a millitary career for most of his life, sparing bouts of ill health throughout the 1790’s. His financially stricken mother had Lacock rented out to the Countess of Shrewsbury, and Mansel Talbot funded much of his military advancement as well as his step-father. William was well known for living beyond his means but as this plate demonstrates, forming the 20th component, this service would have been more suitably housed in the more sumptious home at Penrice, inhabited by Mansel Talbot. William’s son William Henry Fox Talbot (1800-1877) is regarded as the father of the modern photographic process.

This form of border is most uncommon, being more continental in style and may reflect Fogelberg’s Swedish origin. He was born about 1732 and died about 1815.

Provenance: offered at Christie’s South Kensington, 5 Feb 2013, Lot 43

A set of four candlesticks of 1719 by Arthur Dicken engraved with the arms for Bussy Mansel, 4th Baron Mansel (c.1697 - 1750) was sold these rooms, 30 Oct 2020, lot 473 (£18,750 incl. prem). Thomas Mansel Talbot’s grandfather was John Ivory Talbot (1687-1772) of Lacock Abbey and married Mary Mansel, daughter of Thomas, 1st Lord Mansel (1667-1723). By the Will of her brother Christopher, 3rd Lord Mansel (1693-1744), the family estates of Margam and Penrice were left to the Thomas’s father Rev. Thomas Talbot (1719-1758) who subsequently inherited the Mansel estates in 1750 upon the death of Bussy, 4th and last Lord Mansel.